Why remove Vanguard Bastard Cleave Heal?

Why remove the Vanguard Bastard Cleave Heal? Was it really op or something? I don't want to play vanguard anymore lol

Comments

  • They removed the heal on it? I pretty much quit playing but I'm surprised they went that far as to do that. So it's worthless now. It was considered overpowered when paired with a Mana Warrior's Mana Strike. The Mana Strike would give the Mana Warrior armor, thus, combined with Bastard Cleave, made him very difficult to kill. It sounds like, instead of ticking changes back in small doses, they're just throwing out the nerf hammer regardless of the ripple effect it has. I suppose it doesn't really matter anyway since the game is basically dead already. As VD builds become increasingly broken and the very few viable Hero builds continue to get nerfed, it'll chase everyone that's left away too.

  • Ah so they nerfed Vanguard's Bastard Cleave due to it being broken with Mana Warrior? They should've just adjusted mana warrior's spells. You shouldln't nerf a class's spell because of another class is broken with it. The main issue isthat vanguard's kit revolves around damaging its self but now has no way to deal with continuous damage anymore. Therefore without a healer you only really want to use the class for anti-burst now.

  • It's because it was too op on mana warrior. Shields+self healing were stupid

  • edited February 27

    @magicgateway @Spriggan @Alyciae This isn't entirely true. They didn't just nerf Bastard Cleave. Because of the Mana Warrior. Even though it was a rather potent combo on the mana warrior. They actually nerfed the Mana Warrior Two weeks ago on the 9th if you guys remember. Nerfing Cleave, and Mana Strike. And this week they removed any healing from not just Bastard Cleave but also from Combust as well for Pyromancers. Slowly moving away from outright healing ablities for most classes. And limiting potions from 6 to 3. The overall changes are coming in small doses not all in one large clumps. And these changes are not just coming to the hero side either. VD's also have there turn coming up as well. Just to clarify.

  • Removing heals from a dps class, and removing heals from a support class are not the same thing. I dont know why Nerfing something is always the answer. Why not add silences, Healing effectiveness reduction debuffs, or any number of other fixes to counteract heals. Nerfing things is not usually the answer in fact nerfing things when you have such a low player count already is likely to just drive folks off, especially since getting new classes is such a slog.(BTW yall need to do something about that or expect to be hit with the pay2win accusation right out of the gate, especially since to have any kind of decent build you need to unlock multiple classes) As it stands i dont know if im even going to bother playing for a while since I was working on building a vanguard and now my ability to eat my healers damage so they can worry about the rest of the party is gone. Why bother trying to make a good build when it is just going to get nuked. I would suggest 9 and take this for what its worth from just a player) look at the win/lose ratios of ALL of your players and try to figure out why they arent fairly close to even or as close to even as you are comfortable with. Also I know @Dark_Leviathon you arent necessarily a game dev so dont think Im grumping at you, those are just some thoughts in general. /rant

  • edited February 28

    @MisterRain Oh no worries at all there. Honestly some of the nerfs for example the change to Combust for example is alittle over reaching. As for Vangaurd I think stripping the heal in general is senseless. Because to me I look at the Vangaurd like a Paladin, and a Mana Warrior like your a typical Warrior. So in that regard. They should have scaled down the healing it generated or instead of direct healing received. Maybe redesigned it around Lifesteal. Now it isn't the perfect answer either. But just like you said neither is stripping down and nerfing things to the ground that really didn't need it. And ablities like Bastard Cleave was one of those spells by itself that surely didn't need it. By itself it wasn't as powerful. Compared to when the instances it was combined with, other classes and gear/talents. But this will be one of those problems that will occur early on till QC finds the right way to balance a multiple school system/class game.

  • Mana Warrior is basically more tanky than Vanguard. And does more damage most likely.

  • edited March 1

    They can both do some pretty good damage, in fact once a upon a time the vanguard was superior then the MW. But this was before they nerfed Resolute Block, back in the Alpha and was called Indestructible. Back then you had a much longer window of negating all damage while healing at the same time. On top of bastard cleave. Which was something even stronger then Mana Strike was pre-Indestructible nerf and name change. Now the ability is honestly a slimmer shell of it's former self. Basically to give you an idea. What they did to Bastard cleave nerf recently. I would consider it a mercy killing to what Resolute Block was like in the early Alpha's. And ironically enough Resolute Block has also been nerfed from it's previous state as well. So it has gone from a three nerf's and a name rebanding compared to it's orginal state. Which was astonishingly amazing. Even if maybe a taddd broken. To just being broken down and decapitated.

  • @Dark_Leviathon said:
    They can both do some pretty good damage, in fact once a upon a time the vanguard was superior then the MW. But this was before they nerfed Resolute Block, back in the Alpha and was called Indestructible. Back then you had a much longer window of negating all damage while healing at the same time. On top of bastard cleave. Which was something even stronger then Mana Strike was pre-Indestructible nerf and name change. Now the ability is honestly a slimmer shell of it's former self. Basically to give you an idea. What they did to Bastard cleave nerf recently. I would consider it a mercy killing to what Resolute Block was like in the early Alpha's. And ironically enough Resolute Block has also been nerfed from it's previous state as well. So it has gone from a three nerf's and a name rebanding compared to it's orginal state. Which was astonishingly amazing. Even if maybe a taddd broken. To just being broken down and decapitated.

    So you agree?

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